I depend on this blog for to fulfill my daily chiyuv of Talmud Torah. I think that there was absolutely no Torah in this post. I blame you for preventing me from fuilfilling my chiyuv of Talmud Torah today.
I disagree. It's hasafa yiddish hakedosha. Minhag yisrroel Torah. However, in case that is insufficient, you can get your daily dose of Torah by reading a horaah from Rav Chaim Kanievsky.
I was only able to get a teenytiny version of that jpg file, and can't read it. Do you have a larget image, or is it small enough for you to simply tell us the language in it?
I wonder why. It loads fine for me (on a laptop). It is a handwritten note; you can tell it's his handwriting if you've seen it. Someone added all the fancy stuff, the question etc. Here is what it says:
תשובת הגאון ר' חיים קניבסקי שליט"א אם מותר ללמוד במשניות מבוארת
I didn't coin that for Yiddish. French is לעז, of course, except when Italian is לעז. In that case, then French is צפרדעיש (metathesis from צרפתיש, of course).
I did, but of course I can't swear that I wasn't beaten to the punchline.
According to the Bachur the French had [s] for tsade, and this is how he explains קרובץ < קרובות. So "Tsfardish" is also "Sfardish." Stam Tsarfati is Sfardish anyway, no?
Reminds me of this note in the Nit'ei Gavri'el (not me), Yom Kippur, 58:13 (p. 382):
בפסקא ומנחתם אומרים "שני שעירים לכפר ושני תמידים כהלכתם" או "ושעיר לכפר ושני תמידים כהלכתם" אבל לא יאמרו "ושני שעירים לכפר מלבד שעיר הכפורים", ובדיעבד יוצאים בכל הנוסחאות.
And thus, if you're really frum, and you want to be yoitze both, you end up with a total of three goats, rather than two.
But, as Lipman pointed out to me more than five years ago, even this wouldn't be enough for the chareidim. They demand מאה שעירים, hence the name of the neighborhood.
"hasafa yiddish hakedosha" The big circus goat guy had a diyuk: Hebrew is the sfat kodesh but yiddish is sfat hakdoshim. That is sort of similar to the famous retort that Bialik gave as to why he preferred to speak yiddish even though he wrote hebrew.
Great post as always - thanks. Pardoning my ignorance... what would Rav Chaim's issue be with Kehati? The modern Hebrew? Just looked up Rav Kehati on wikipedia and he appears to be connected with Mizrachi... would that be the issue? Or do they (chareidim) have an issue with the commentary itself?
I think all of that. It relies on Hanoch Albeck's work on the Mishnah, and he is treif not only because of his Wissenschaftlich approach, but because he also taught at the (Reform) Hochschule für die Wissenschaft des Judentums in Berlin.
It's treif to them because its a Torah project that did not originate from their own circles. That's why Soncino is treif but Artscroll isnt. It's why Shteinzaltz is treif but Oz Vihadar isnt. It's why Chabad outreach was ignored until Or Sameach came along. Had Daf Yomi been initiated and promoted by Mizrachi instead of Agudah, I promise you it would be roundly criticized by the latter.
The clerk then asked the Jew whether his hat was nailed or glued to his head? "With a nail in the sure place", replied the convert, "but not that with which Jael slew Sisera."
"It is likely to hold", replied the ready writer; "for your head, my lord, is of the most solid substance."
"Be it remembered", replied Israel Abraham, again stroking his bushy beard, whilst Lucifer was peeping at the bench through his lordship's fingers, -- "be it known, I say -- that the more solid the substance, the more capable it is of receiving a fine bright polish."
"Pardoning my ignorance... what would Rav Chaim's issue be with Kehati?"
i can't answer for him, but in 1992/3 i saw a pashkvil in jerusalem that assured kehati, iirc because he explained the sexual content? but i could be remembering wrong. i had photographed the pashkvil and at some point i removed it from my shoebox so i could find more it easily. of course now i have no idea where i moved it to.
I depend on this blog for to fulfill my daily chiyuv of Talmud Torah. I think that there was absolutely no Torah in this post. I blame you for preventing me from fuilfilling my chiyuv of Talmud Torah today.
ReplyDeleteI disagree. It's hasafa yiddish hakedosha. Minhag yisrroel Torah. However, in case that is insufficient, you can get your daily dose of Torah by reading a horaah from Rav Chaim Kanievsky.
ReplyDeletehttp://img341.imageshack.us/img341/7506/kehatiissurchaimkanievs.jpg
I was only able to get a teenytiny version of that jpg file, and can't read it. Do you have a larget image, or is it small enough for you to simply tell us the language in it?
ReplyDeleteI wonder why. It loads fine for me (on a laptop). It is a handwritten note; you can tell it's his handwriting if you've seen it. Someone added all the fancy stuff, the question etc. Here is what it says:
ReplyDeleteתשובת הגאון ר' חיים קניבסקי שליט"א
אם מותר ללמוד במשניות מבוארת
and R. Chaim's answer:
חלילה ללמוד בפי' הקהתי
This is your daily dose of Torah.
I stopped reading after "cholila lilmod."
DeleteThank you, I learned a halacha today, due to this blog.
ReplyDeleteIt's hasafa yiddish hakedosha.
ReplyDeleteNot to be confused with "Sfas Ha-medine", i.e. ɛnglish. Nice that this blog has a kinnui for each language. What's French?
And that Reb Chayim psak is hilarious.
I didn't coin that for Yiddish. French is לעז, of course, except when Italian is לעז. In that case, then French is צפרדעיש (metathesis from צרפתיש, of course).
ReplyDeleteDid you just coin צפרדעיש?
DeleteFunny also that, if I recall correctly, medieval French pronunciation of Hebrew had [ts] for tav refuya. So, ספרדיש would come out as "tsfardish".
Oh wait, Sepharad is with a samekh. Forget I said anything.
"Did you just coin צפרדעיש?"
DeleteI did, but of course I can't swear that I wasn't beaten to the punchline.
According to the Bachur the French had [s] for tsade, and this is how he explains קרובץ < קרובות. So "Tsfardish" is also "Sfardish." Stam Tsarfati is Sfardish anyway, no?
Other way around, no? [ts] for tav refuya: קרובות = [krovets].
Deleteit's hilarious to see how he writes "ה' תשס"ה "לפ"ק
ReplyDeleteIn fairness "ה" isn't 5000 - but, yeah, you're right.
Delete"ה" is an abbreviation of five thousand.
DeleteI know.
Deletehe is not the only one, you can find this mistake everywhere, you can do a whole post on this.
DeleteInteresting mistake. It's not a question of being yotze 2 methods. If you add the heh and have the 5,000, then the l'p'k - is simply wrong.
ReplyDeleteReminds me of this note in the Nit'ei Gavri'el (not me), Yom Kippur, 58:13 (p. 382):
Deleteבפסקא ומנחתם אומרים "שני שעירים לכפר ושני תמידים כהלכתם" או "ושעיר לכפר ושני תמידים כהלכתם" אבל לא יאמרו "ושני שעירים לכפר מלבד שעיר הכפורים", ובדיעבד יוצאים בכל הנוסחאות.
And thus, if you're really frum, and you want to be yoitze both, you end up with a total of three goats, rather than two.
But, as Lipman pointed out to me more than five years ago, even this wouldn't be enough for the chareidim. They demand מאה שעירים, hence the name of the neighborhood.
"hasafa yiddish hakedosha"
ReplyDeleteThe big circus goat guy had a diyuk: Hebrew is the sfat kodesh but yiddish is sfat hakdoshim. That is sort of similar to the famous retort that Bialik gave as to why he preferred to speak yiddish even though he wrote hebrew.
Note that he says "chalila" but not "asur". Maybe he means chalila in the sense that it should be learned over and over again.
ReplyDelete:-)
"Over and over again" = chalilo חֲלִילָה
Delete"Heaven forbid" = cholilo חָלִילָה
When did the dyspepsia advertisement originally appear?
ReplyDelete1915.
DeleteWait, so if the first Anonymous wouldn't complain, we wouldn't see R' Chaim's "psak"? The moral of the story: it pays to kvetch!
ReplyDeleteExactly. And to comment in general. You never know what you can provoke.
DeleteGreat post as always - thanks. Pardoning my ignorance... what would Rav Chaim's issue be with Kehati? The modern Hebrew? Just looked up Rav Kehati on wikipedia and he appears to be connected with Mizrachi... would that be the issue? Or do they (chareidim) have an issue with the commentary itself?
ReplyDeleteI think all of that. It relies on Hanoch Albeck's work on the Mishnah, and he is treif not only because of his Wissenschaftlich approach, but because he also taught at the (Reform) Hochschule für die Wissenschaft des Judentums in Berlin.
DeleteIt's treif to them because its a Torah project that did not originate from their own circles. That's why Soncino is treif but Artscroll isnt. It's why Shteinzaltz is treif but Oz Vihadar isnt. It's why Chabad outreach was ignored until Or Sameach came along. Had Daf Yomi been initiated and promoted by Mizrachi instead of Agudah, I promise you it would be roundly criticized by the latter.
DeleteJordan Penkower is wearing shorts to work today. Hmmm.
ReplyDeleteThe clerk then asked the Jew whether his hat was nailed or glued to his head? "With a nail in the sure place", replied the convert, "but not that with which Jael slew Sisera."
ReplyDelete"It is likely to hold", replied the ready writer; "for your head, my lord, is of the most solid substance."
"Be it remembered", replied Israel Abraham, again stroking his bushy beard, whilst Lucifer was peeping at the bench through his lordship's fingers, -- "be it known, I say -- that the more solid the substance, the more capable it is of receiving a fine bright polish."
ANON:
ReplyDelete"Pardoning my ignorance... what would Rav Chaim's issue be with Kehati?"
i can't answer for him, but in 1992/3 i saw a pashkvil in jerusalem that assured kehati, iirc because he explained the sexual content? but i could be remembering wrong. i had photographed the pashkvil and at some point i removed it from my shoebox so i could find more it easily. of course now i have no idea where i moved it to.
This tеxt іs pricelеss. Wheгe can I find οut more?
ReplyDeleteFeel freе tο νisit my ωebpage - payday loans