tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12600498.post6694822822440576218..comments2024-01-21T02:58:08.208-05:00Comments on On the Main Line: Guest post: My great-grandfather's chumash and siddur with piyutimMississippi Fred MacDowellhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02734864605700159687noreply@blogger.comBlogger21125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12600498.post-36059256710585378742023-12-26T22:12:33.083-05:002023-12-26T22:12:33.083-05:00C8501
https://www.pinshop.com.tr/game/pubg-mobile/...C8501<br /><a href="https://www.pinshop.com.tr/game/pubg-mobile/pubg-mobile-uc" rel="nofollow">https://www.pinshop.com.tr/game/pubg-mobile/pubg-mobile-uc</a><br /><a href="https://glucotrustsite.com" rel="nofollow">glucotrust</a><br />DD918Christopher8E0ECnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12600498.post-5359584844737994172014-12-27T22:27:17.936-05:002014-12-27T22:27:17.936-05:00Just a couple of updates:
1) The correct link in f...Just a couple of updates:<br />1) The correct link in footnote 1 is http://www.worldcat.org/title/pentateuch-haphtorahs-and-prayers-for-sabbath-to-which-is-added-tables-shewing-the-time-of-commencing-sabbath-and-dates-on-which-the-portions-of-the-pentateuch-and-haphtorahs-are-read-for-the-ensuing-twenty-years/oclc/234113235/editions?referer=di&editionsView=true.<br /><br />2) Apparently, the main shul in Butapest recites most, if not all Eastern piyutim, including Ahavo piyutim. I am still curious about other communities.David Rothnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12600498.post-41715595618902689212014-11-25T23:13:09.749-05:002014-11-25T23:13:09.749-05:00I mentioned this in footnote 15, but Minhag Frankf...I mentioned this in footnote 15, but Minhag Frankfurt AM is Western Ashkenaz, and this book is Eastern Ashkenaz.David Rothnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12600498.post-18546855202279144112014-11-20T13:57:11.097-05:002014-11-20T13:57:11.097-05:00I have noticed that the English custom differs sli...I have noticed that the English custom differs slightly in terms of the variant forms used on special Shabbatot. According to my ancestral custom (Frankfurt a.M.), before the zulat, not only do we say the shortened version of על הרישונים, but we also say a version a separate version of אמת ויציב, which I will include below for the benefit of those who wish to compare the liturgical variants.<br /><br /><br /><br />אמת ויציב ונכון וקים וישר ונאמן וטוב ויפה הדבר הזה על אבותינו ועלינו על בננו ועל דורותינו ועל כל–דורות זרע ישראל עבדךNoahnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12600498.post-10553227235148191422014-08-21T23:23:34.073-04:002014-08-21T23:23:34.073-04:00My understanding is that some United Synagogue shu...My understanding is that some United Synagogue shuls still say maaravos, although I've never<br />KAJ does it l'dovid boruch, as well as many other "old-school" shuls in NYC. In Israel, they do it Erlau in Katamon, and in other places (including some minyonim in the Gr"a in Shaarei Chesed, they sing just l'menatzech b'neginos. I did not mention this because this siddur does not contain maariv for motza"sh at all.David Rothnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12600498.post-35594884266470947022014-08-17T17:13:44.276-04:002014-08-17T17:13:44.276-04:001) Understood.
2) This is definitely the minhag o...1) Understood.<br /><br />2) This is definitely the minhag of KAJ-WH. However, as far as I understand, this is not a universal custom and I don't believe that R' Hamburger's schuls recite them (I will inquire since I am not sure). Even my siddur which has these mizmorim introduces it with "yesh nohagim lomar..." (R' Hofmeister siddur from Austria).<br /><br />3) As I understand it, the addition of these pesukim in Western Ashkenaz was not by any means universal and is not in accord with the older texts of aleinu. I would refer to Yerushaseinu volume 3, "Kaddish after Aleinu According to Minhag Ashkenaz" by R' Shlomo Chaim Oman (Uman?).Dannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12600498.post-8469675065733934622014-08-17T16:03:43.601-04:002014-08-17T16:03:43.601-04:001) In footnote 11, I was referring to the recitati...1) In footnote 11, I was referring to the recitation of oleinu in general at mincho when maariv is followed immediately.<br /><br />2) Weekday maariv b'zman (except motza"sh) have 3 pirkei tehillim with kadeishim after them.<br /><br />3) I am aware that R' Hamburger and several sources indicate that there were no pesukim in oleinu, but it is not clear to me how universal this practice was. [Note also that Divrei Kehillos (http://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=6822&st=&pgnum=37) says that there is no kaddish after oleinu, but does not say where to end.] Several old siddurim have at least the first posuk (Hashem yimloch l'olam vo'ed), see for example siddur R' Eliya Bochur http://hebrewbooks.org/21244, which is clearly Western Ashkenaz.David Rothnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12600498.post-8539032057451959492014-08-15T12:23:52.926-04:002014-08-15T12:23:52.926-04:00Nice article. Regarding the recitation of kaddish...Nice article. Regarding the recitation of kaddish after aleinu (footnote 11), the old Ashkenaz custom was not to recite pesukim at the end of aleinu. Perforce, there was no kaddish yasom. According to old Ashkenaz there was no kaddish yasom at mincha (since there is no aleinu) or at maariv either since the pesukim at the end of aleinu were not recited. In KAJ, this custom is not followed (i.e. pesukim are recited as is kaddish). However, at our Western Ashkenaz minyan (on Motzaei Shabbos), we do not recite these pesukim or kaddish after aleinu (although we do have kaddish yasom after Shir HaMa'alos). See more here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EzBHzFAPj2wDannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12600498.post-82711079748236618742014-08-08T09:24:56.085-04:002014-08-08T09:24:56.085-04:00Yep. They say Brach Dodi as printed in the machzor...Yep. They say Brach Dodi as printed in the machzor, before goal yisroel.JSnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12600498.post-78422403663715509502014-08-07T15:45:08.346-04:002014-08-07T15:45:08.346-04:00Saying Brach Dodi inside - I mean in its original ...Saying Brach Dodi inside - I mean in its original place before goal yisroel, as opposed to some yeshivishe places who say it after shemone esrei.David Rothnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12600498.post-76275527915814691752014-08-07T14:41:40.606-04:002014-08-07T14:41:40.606-04:00Do they say Brach Dodi inside?
It was some time ag...<i>Do they say Brach Dodi inside?<i><br />It was some time ago since I davened there on Pesach, but from what I remember, the chazan said it while the tzibur just sat and daydreamed (at least I did -- I'm sure there were those who followed along). (I wasn't certain what you meant by "inside". Did that answer your question?)<br /><br /><i>Did they say just the ofan and not the guf yotzer?<i><br />Correct. They do say the modified beginning of the <i>yotzer or</i> bracha, but then skip the guf yotzer. <br />I once heard from an old Lakewood talmid with respect to another "unusual" piyut said in BMG on R"H and YO"K -- the piyut immediately before shacharis kedusha -- that R' Aron Kotler felt because of the stature of R' Elizeier Hakalir the yeshiva should say all his piyutim on R"H and YO"K, but then they would never finish davening so he had to limit it to this one (in other words, m'at b'kavanah...). That may also explain why they skip the guf yotzer.</i></i></i></i>JSnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12600498.post-4098094577532679202014-08-07T14:07:51.361-04:002014-08-07T14:07:51.361-04:00Haven't been there to see -- I'll have to ...Haven't been there to see -- I'll have to check with my brother.Dan Kleinnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12600498.post-13181831675200051392014-08-06T21:28:12.183-04:002014-08-06T21:28:12.183-04:00Thanks for the info. Very interesting.Thanks for the info. Very interesting.David Rothnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12600498.post-31178886061722311922014-08-06T21:26:27.006-04:002014-08-06T21:26:27.006-04:00"They say musaf for 4 parshiyos"
I presu..."They say musaf for 4 parshiyos"<br />I presume you mean shekolim and hachodesh, because the other two were dropped in Ashkenaz about 700 years ago. They can be found only in a limited number of early Ashkenaz manuscripts, although they are preserved in minhag Romania (Greece), where they were recited for all four of the 4 parshios at mincho of the shabbos before.<br /><br /><br />Do they say Brach Dodi inside? What about the ofan on yomim noraim? Did they say just the ofan and not the guf yotzer?<br /><br /><br />Anyway, thanks for the info.David Rothnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12600498.post-51760327546298391162014-08-06T14:59:15.787-04:002014-08-06T14:59:15.787-04:00Ooops 1880Ooops 1880martinlbrodynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12600498.post-57974974749781411722014-08-06T14:52:04.438-04:002014-08-06T14:52:04.438-04:00Nice stuff.
I find the candle lighting times, with...Nice stuff.<br />I find the candle lighting times, with 30 minute jumps in early spring a bit odd.<br />Piyutim were discarded by CR Adler in his modifications of 1980, and those modifications were incorporated into the new siddur, Singers.martinlbrodynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12600498.post-8650776273688397152014-08-06T14:42:33.037-04:002014-08-06T14:42:33.037-04:00many communities today such Mesivta Tifereth Jerus...<i>many communities today such Mesivta Tifereth Jerusalem (MTJ) of the Lower East Side, Manhattan....recite kerovos today</i><br />Also unusual for a litvishe yeshiva, Beth Medrash Govoha ("Lakewood") says kerovos for 4 parshios & Shabbos hagadol, but after, not during, chazaras hashatz. They say musaf for 4 parshiyos, and the krovetz for Purim, in the proper place in chazaras hashatz. From what I remember, they don't say the krovos on yom tov, but they do say Brach Dodi on Pesach. Also, they say the ofan on Rosh Hashana and Yom Kippur.JSnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12600498.post-500742929553041602014-08-06T13:50:21.143-04:002014-08-06T13:50:21.143-04:00Yes, Bikur Cholim is the shul I was talking about....Yes, Bikur Cholim is the shul I was talking about.Dan Kleinnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12600498.post-9400299385581087712014-08-06T12:46:26.182-04:002014-08-06T12:46:26.182-04:00My grandparents a"h davened in Bikur Cholim i...My grandparents a"h davened in Bikur Cholim in Bridgeport. I remember on a visit for yom tov as a child (some time in the mid to late 70s) there was a huge to-do when the shliach tzibur decided to skip the maarivim (though if I remember correctly, my father called them maarovos).<br />Much later, when I would call my grandmother after yom kippur she would always comment, "In our shul there is no time for breaks -- they say every single word in the machzor!"JSnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12600498.post-15924045959239238832014-08-06T08:43:55.068-04:002014-08-06T08:43:55.068-04:00This brought back fond memories of Mr. Max Sulzbac...This brought back fond memories of Mr. Max Sulzbacher's home based business, which was the only seforim store in Golders Green when I was a young child. He was a cheerful man with a thick TCHERMANN accent, and his address was 2 Sneath Avenue. He liked to consider himself a collector and dealer in valuable used Hebraica, but was also a source for the usual needs of the local frum community, sidurim, chumoshim, Kitzur Shulchan Aruch and basic commentaries. For more serious works one had to go to Hochauser in Stamford Hill. There was also an old seforim outlet in the East End, Zeilingold, I was never there but it functioned until some time in the 1960s.<br />I believe that in the early years, Mr. Joelsohn, who had owned a seforim and taleisim business in Hamburg continued it on a small scale in Golders Green.<br />Reb Yochanan Hochauser was an amazing expert in antique and modern seforim, I believe that he had been librarian at the Rabbiner Seminar in Berlin before the war, and I have wonderful memories of his explanations of the history of every sefer in his home business. His son had a shop on Manor Road which was much more like a modern business, whatever was in demand with official hours and no free education included.Avrohomnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12600498.post-65552107635611978092014-08-04T14:48:43.970-04:002014-08-04T14:48:43.970-04:00Beautiful article. When I was growing up in the 1...Beautiful article. When I was growing up in the 1960's, my Hungarian-origin shul was still using the 1930's era Philips machzorim for the Shalosh Regalim, with piyutim. My chazan grandfather set great store in them, but they were quietly mumbled at best by most of us, and to my relief, my father assured me that I could skip the especially lengthy and complicated passages. At some time in the seventies, as best as I can recall, the old machzorim were replaced by the Birnbaum edition, which eliminated almost all of the piyutim. They thus automatically disappeared from our davening without a whimper of protest from anyone. The only shul I've been to since then that has faithfully kept up the piyutim for the Shalosh Regalim is my brother's in Bridgeport, Connecticut, even though most of its old-timer Hungarians are gone.Dan Kleinnoreply@blogger.com