tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12600498.post2965719682348145464..comments2024-01-21T02:58:08.208-05:00Comments on On the Main Line: Zechariah Padova; the man who dresses too piously, misbehaves and is forced to shave in 1777.Mississippi Fred MacDowellhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02734864605700159687noreply@blogger.comBlogger17125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12600498.post-38376128621563633402010-12-22T01:19:36.232-05:002010-12-22T01:19:36.232-05:00Apparently my source confused Chida with Yaakov Sa...Apparently my source confused Chida with <a href="http://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=22332&st=&pgnum=138" rel="nofollow">Yaakov Sapir</a>.Bar Uryanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01784873087738099484noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12600498.post-37763374356178140132010-04-30T17:35:07.903-04:002010-04-30T17:35:07.903-04:00I wasn't literally proposing forcible shaving ...I wasn't literally proposing forcible shaving as a solution to child molesting. The effective modern equivalent is legal action that puts the culprit on a sex offender's registry.<br /><br />I was merely making the point that we should stop judging by appearances of religiosity and instead publicly condemn those with the chutzpah to pretend to piety inconsistent with their base acts.Yerachmiel Lopinhttp://frumfollies.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12600498.post-866057784152065382010-04-19T12:58:49.407-04:002010-04-19T12:58:49.407-04:00I fear you're calling for the wolves to save t...I fear you're calling for the wolves to save the sheep The Catholic Church too had this problem: how is it that this most holiest of groups, God's very representative on earth, not only has degenerates among them, but sexual degenerates? The answer was: no we don't. I should think from a frumme POV the thinking would have been "chasdei Hashem! It is our good fortune that we had 10 years of warning from the Catholic Church to think about how we might respond to a similar scandal," but evidently the response is largely the same. One wonders if there even can be any response from God's very representatives on earth besides for "it's all a lie."S.http://onthemainline.blogspot.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12600498.post-27415387040227511472010-04-19T12:25:58.974-04:002010-04-19T12:25:58.974-04:00Taking note of the points you make about Yerachmie...Taking note of the points you make about Yerachmiel's idea, I would still argue that what is needed in the Torah world is for leaders to FIGURATIVELY shave off people's beards who are acting pious and are bringing shame and humiliation on our people and causing a desecration of G-d's name. <br /><br />The Pope has been called on to defrock pedophile priests.<br /><br />Lehavdil, Rav Eliezer Silver, Z"TL said that pedophiles in our community should be placed in cherem and not allowed in any shul.<br /><br />Why is it that in today's climate, men who do not give their wives Gittin have their names posted weekly in the Jewish Press as Mesarev Ladin, but known child molesters, even convicted ones, are allowed to parade around as ehrlich Jews covered up for by our leaders?Asher Lipner, Ph.D.noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12600498.post-57237621256270448582010-04-19T11:36:31.032-04:002010-04-19T11:36:31.032-04:00Thanks Yerachmiel.
However, as some of your comme...Thanks Yerachmiel.<br /><br />However, as some of your commentators note, for this sort of reaction to be even considered as desirable relies on an assumption of a whole lot of justice and lack of corruption on the part of leaders and their hangers-on/ minders. In addition, beards grow back and clothes can be put on again. If Community A perceives a guy as only Community A's problem, until he's gone and in a new community with a whole new beard, they're mistaken. When a guy with a beard in Monsey does something shady, he gives guys in Boro Park with a beard a bad name. In short, this is all no solution, even assuming good will and careful justice on the part of leaders. Also note how the leaders of Modena looked in my piece; their problem was that this fellow was misbehaving (perhaps some Sabbatean connection as per the learned Yisrael Dubitsky above) and he held himself as a rabbi rather than a regular guy. In the Yeshivish/ Chassidish community, there are no differences in dress between rabbi and layman which are discernible to outsiders.S.http://onthemainline.blogspot.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12600498.post-20690966423953396892010-04-19T10:41:37.835-04:002010-04-19T10:41:37.835-04:00Thank you for another great post.
I referenced t...Thank you for another great post. <br /><br />I referenced this post (with full credit and a link) on my blog Frum Follies. My post, "Shave the Hypocrite" goes after those who vainly protest the innocence of convicted molesters because they have the beard and garb instead of demanding these hypocrites surrender their false claims of piety. http://wp.me/sFbfD-shaveYerachmiel Lopinhttp://frumfollies.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12600498.post-91323725290027225972010-04-14T00:42:58.058-04:002010-04-14T00:42:58.058-04:00Chashad usually means having relations with someon...Chashad usually means having relations with someone forbidden [non jewish would be my first guess].<br /><br />Regarding who was right, the Chida clearly felt Zecharia was in the wrong because the Chida rebuked him.<br /><br />The Chida did not note people who praised him "because he was human"This is my namenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12600498.post-12195352017769331832010-04-13T12:17:18.731-04:002010-04-13T12:17:18.731-04:00Bar Uryan
There are a few references to smoking, ...Bar Uryan<br /><br />There are a few references to smoking, including the Chida himself, but I don't recall anything that explicit, although in my opinion the last one is closest to anything even remotely like it. For the smoking references, see pp 2, 53, 56, 80, 141, 158 in the MT Ha-shalem, link below (note these are page numbers in the book, not in the pdf)<br /><br />http://www.hebrewbooks.org/21838S.http://onthemainline.blogspot.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12600498.post-22219061678749771652010-04-13T09:47:22.470-04:002010-04-13T09:47:22.470-04:00I assume this is the same as the Zecharia Hayyim b...I assume this is the same as the Zecharia Hayyim ben Eliezer Padova who copied a 28 page pamphlet of Sabbatian literature in 1755 (ms available in the Warsaw Jewish Historcial Institute). At the time he identified himself as from the city (province?) of Vercelli but by 1757 when he wrote some piyyutim in a collection he was already in Modena. His father may be the same R. Eliezer Padova whose teshuva is recorded in another ms among respectable/non-Sabbatian meshivim.<br />Whether the incident in 1777 had anything to do with Sabbatian leanings or not, I leave to others.<br /><br />Yisrael DubitskyAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12600498.post-29508157554769624562010-04-12T21:21:28.976-04:002010-04-12T21:21:28.976-04:00Interesting nusach for the 19th blessing in the pi...Interesting nusach for the 19th blessing in the picture.<br /><br />DFAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12600498.post-74354025316320884112010-04-12T20:05:16.519-04:002010-04-12T20:05:16.519-04:00While on this somewhat related topic:
Are you awa...While on this somewhat related topic:<br /><br />Are you aware of anyplace where the Chida might refer to having encountered any "herbs of happiness" which were ingested by means of smoking?Bar Uryanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01784873087738099484noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12600498.post-53004392591529547082010-04-12T18:37:32.590-04:002010-04-12T18:37:32.590-04:00It is indeed a great book. One thing which made Ro...It is indeed a great book. One thing which made Roth so great was precisely how he never removes his personality from what he is talking about.S.http://onthemainline.blogspot.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12600498.post-18459488967488841902010-04-12T18:26:52.422-04:002010-04-12T18:26:52.422-04:00On the subject of Cecil, his wife Irene wrote a po...On the subject of Cecil, his wife Irene wrote a posthumous biography of him entitled, "Historian Without Tears". I assume you're already familiar with the book but in the event that you have yet to read it I'd recommend that you give it a shot. It really is fantastic. I expected it to be a book about his aloof professionalism (what else could "without tears" mean?) but it was precisely the opposite and provides a bay window into the world of a brilliant and passionate Jewish historian during one of the most important periods in Jewish history.<br /><br />Moshe RudnerMoshe Rudnernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12600498.post-48763157259698960402010-04-12T13:48:08.981-04:002010-04-12T13:48:08.981-04:00Sure they're legit; as long as they're in ...Sure they're legit; as long as they're in stock.<br /><br />I agree, it shouldn't be at the top unless you've got a particular interest. It certainly should be in the "To Own - Eventually" list.S.http://onthemainline.blogspot.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12600498.post-40650357297839927882010-04-12T13:29:18.932-04:002010-04-12T13:29:18.932-04:00I've seen a few places list it for less -- aro...I've seen a few places list it for less -- around $30-$35...<br /><br />http://nehora.com/index.cfm/product/1137/the-diaries-of-rabbi-haim-yosef-david-azulai-chidah.cfm<br /><br />http://www.judaism.com/display.asp?etn=HDCCH<br /><br />Not sure if they are legit.<br /><br />My reading list is kind of long these days so maybe this shouldn't automatically go to the top.Jordanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09089247980062665630noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12600498.post-26222792339096284462010-04-12T13:24:19.814-04:002010-04-12T13:24:19.814-04:00Yes, but with the caveat that it is difficult read...Yes, but with the caveat that it is difficult reading. Cymerman's translation is a little . . . odd in certain respects. In addition, a lot of it is lists of names and places. The Chida didn't write it (it seems) for publication and it isn't written in a pleasing narrative form. However there are dozens if not hundreds of gems scattered throughout it, and it can be a lot of fun to read it and find them. Cymerman did a good job, but he left a lot of room for really expanding on the people and places and things the Chida writes about. For example, I'm going to do another post later about two lines in the Ma'agal Tov, which Cymerman only gave the slightest explanation for. You could have done several dense paragraphs about those two lines.<br /><br />I was only able to see it for sale online for something like $70 (checked addall.com). I would not pay that for it (and I didn't). Better to wait for a cheaper copy to appear eventually.S.http://onthemainline.blogspot.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12600498.post-37526409800276834352010-04-12T13:14:07.859-04:002010-04-12T13:14:07.859-04:00S., would you recommend the English translation of...S., would you recommend the English translation of Ma'agal Tov as "pleasure reading" for someone interested in Jewish history and travel literature in general?<br /><br />The public library here doesn't have it so I'd have to order it from somewhere, at some expense.Jordanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09089247980062665630noreply@blogger.com