tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12600498.post2761486595396358146..comments2024-01-21T02:58:08.208-05:00Comments on On the Main Line: Bald Jewish Women revisited - were London women expected to shave their head or skip shul in 1802?Mississippi Fred MacDowellhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02734864605700159687noreply@blogger.comBlogger7125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12600498.post-31056997691184866042011-01-20T09:27:27.480-05:002011-01-20T09:27:27.480-05:00Dan, thanks. They have. If you click the name Fred...Dan, thanks. They have. If you click the name Fred MacDowell used on the story you'll see a number of times that they've linked to my posts. It's a good site, and I'm not just saying that because they drive up my hits when they do link to me (although I like that of course).S.http://onthemainline.blogspot.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12600498.post-87849845981879240282011-01-20T08:33:00.379-05:002011-01-20T08:33:00.379-05:00S., you and your readers may be interested to know...S., you and your readers may be interested to know that this post is featured as one of "Today's Picks" for 1/19/11 on www.jewishideasdaily.com. Cool. I have just discovered that website; don't know if it has picked up any of your pieces before, but you're obviously on their radar.Dan Kleinnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12600498.post-4546515751760204552011-01-19T19:44:44.253-05:002011-01-19T19:44:44.253-05:00For the record, in my opinion the suggestion that ...For the record, in my opinion the suggestion that it arose out of a mikva chumra is unlikely because there isn't even a hint of it until the perpetuation of this custom itself is defended. <br /><br />As for the other one, that it could have been meant to make Jewish women unattractive targets for rape, I think it's also unconvincing. Firstly, it totally ignores the pathology of rapists, and the fact that women actually don't become repulsive when they are shaved. Secondly, no one has actually produced any evidence of nobles in Europe having their way with Jewish women, neither in Jewish sources nor non-Jewish ones. There are of course instances of rape, seduction and consensual affairs, but it's hard to see how shaving would have applied or why it would have entirely escaped the record in halachic literature until it was being defended as something to keep doing. This is why I think it's most likely something that began as a private hygienic matter. This would account for its absence in rabbinic literature. They also don't talk about, you know, how women keep themselves smelling good, unless it is relevant to a halachic query. When I learned of the prevalence of hair disease in Poland to the extent that they named it after the place, and I thought about various things members of my own family have said about what hair covering did to their hair, it occurred to me that removing it altogether might have just seemed like a good idea. In a way, this actually dovetails with the mikva theory. Can a woman afflicted with "plina polonica" be tovel? Seems like the epitome of a chatzitza.<br /><br />I find Rafael's suggestion that it may have arisen - or at least been perpetuated - out of a desire to compel proper head covering interesting, although in truth, do women have to cover their hair or head? It seems like it's true that if they are shaved they will cover their head, but it also seems like that's missing the forest for the trees.S.http://onthemainline.blogspot.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12600498.post-84479213395947205352011-01-19T02:18:37.425-05:002011-01-19T02:18:37.425-05:00B"H
I have heard two additional sources for ...B"H<br /><br />I have heard two additional sources for this custom:<br /><br />1. A humrah (stringency) for tevilah (immersing in a miqweh), so that twisted hairs will not constitute a disqualified tevilah. I know men who go up onto Har HaBayith, thus requiring kosher tevilah beforehand, keep their beards relatively short for the same reason.<br /><br />2. Cutting the hair of the kallah before marriage to make her unattractive to goyim participating in pograms (ysh"w).Esser Agarothhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12853681733864707489noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12600498.post-86048303199183658592011-01-19T01:47:28.160-05:002011-01-19T01:47:28.160-05:00Rav Hirsch wrote (in Horeb, I believe): "To h...Rav Hirsch wrote (in Horeb, I believe): "To hide one's own hair under an ornamental covering made from someone else's or even from one's own after being cut is a very old custom which is not forbidden."Dan Kleinnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12600498.post-44618041799138930562011-01-18T10:52:56.954-05:002011-01-18T10:52:56.954-05:00No, I just wrote it in a lousy way. I meant to say...No, I just wrote it in a lousy way. I meant to say that he was talking about hair covering per se, rather than shaving. It may be that gentiles were under the impression that Jewish women shaved their head, whether all of them did or didn't, just as today some might think so. Thus even if he was only speaking of covering the hair/ head, they interpreted it as an edict about shaving.<br /><br />On the other hand, famously the Chasam Sofer wrote that the custom should be maintained, and although he lived in Pressburg he was a German Ashkenazi all the way, and perceived himself as such until the day he died. So it's somewhat hard to see him defending a totally foreign custom as being so important. It's entirely possible that in the Frankfurt AM of his birth this is what the pious women did, and the pious Rabbi Solomon Hirschel - who was almost exactly the same age as the Chasam Sofer, and also grew up in Germany - meant exactly the same thing, that they should shave their head. As I pointed out, this was somewhat unrealistic given that 45 years earlier the young Jewish girls of London were already wearing fashionably low cut dresses.S.http://onthemainline.blogspot.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12600498.post-78573647072230935462011-01-18T00:06:30.571-05:002011-01-18T00:06:30.571-05:00"First, did Rabbi Solomon Hirschel really men..."First, did Rabbi Solomon Hirschel really mention head-shaving? It's hard to believe that he could have been so deluded as to think that this would fly in his new community. <b>It seems to me that it's possible that he was talking about hair-covering altogether</b>."<br /><br />Something's not computing about that last sentence, grammar-wise. Perhaps you forgot the word "not"?<br /><br />--PhilAnonymousnoreply@blogger.com