tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12600498.post1294108755723603184..comments2024-01-21T02:58:08.208-05:00Comments on On the Main Line: The fun things you find on title pages: was the Vilna Gaon a Rebbe or a Rav?Mississippi Fred MacDowellhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02734864605700159687noreply@blogger.comBlogger13125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12600498.post-32658234895675485422010-10-27T09:12:02.220-04:002010-10-27T09:12:02.220-04:00That should be whoever, not whomever (in the third...That should be whoever, not whomever (in the third line under the title page).Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12600498.post-57792885359786987862010-10-26T23:59:27.725-04:002010-10-26T23:59:27.725-04:00"I'm not going to say it was invented by ..."I'm not going to say it was invented by American congregations in the 1940s, but that's kind of my opinion about it." <br /><br />Pretty good example of apophasis, I think that's called.DFhttp://www.yahoo.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12600498.post-7736378666150202332010-10-26T22:28:16.071-04:002010-10-26T22:28:16.071-04:00i meant to write that the text of the lemberg edit...i meant to write that the text of the lemberg edition was the one originally prepared for printing even before the 1832 edition.Abba's Rantingshttp://abbasrantings.blogpspot.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12600498.post-30688898591377386472010-10-26T21:53:10.313-04:002010-10-26T21:53:10.313-04:00Mar Gavriel:
"The Zolkiew printing was in 18...Mar Gavriel:<br /><br />"The Zolkiew printing was in 1840"<br /><br />institute for hebrew bibliography catalogues "lemberg?, after 1833" because it is identical to the lemberg, 1833 edition. this edition is very different than the editio princeps and institute conjectures that the lemberg edition was actually the one that was originally for printingAbba Rantinghttp://abbasrantings.blogspot.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12600498.post-49135250851739283762010-10-26T19:26:05.344-04:002010-10-26T19:26:05.344-04:00Rebbe and Rebbi sound different in Polish.
Rebbi...Rebbe and Rebbi sound different in Polish. <br /><br />Rebbi isn't Admor. Rebbe is.<br /><br />Also, Rav Yissachar Ber was a dayan in Vilna and one of the leaders of the Gaons Kloiz. He met the Gaon briefly as a child but was very close to his leading talmidim R' Saadya and R'Mendel Shklover.<br /><br />The Gaon changed many minhagim during his lifetime and we can assume that the tradition from later talmidim (especially R' Mendel and R'Yisrael) better represents Gaon's opinions. <br /><br />It is not surprising that R' Chaim Volozhiner (who in the latter years visited the Gaon only occasionally) didn't recognize some minhagim.Shimon Snoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12600498.post-11331770722169271262010-10-26T17:17:31.398-04:002010-10-26T17:17:31.398-04:00This Zolkiew printing was NOT the first printing. ...This Zolkiew printing was NOT the first printing. The first printing was Vilna-Horodna, in 1832. The Zolkiew printing was in 1840.Mar Gavrielnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12600498.post-53765617786621141702010-10-26T11:54:00.495-04:002010-10-26T11:54:00.495-04:00It's probably in his dissertation "Elijah...It's probably in his dissertation "Elijah of Vilna and the making of modern rabbinic Judaism." If you send me an email I can send it to you.S.http://onthemainline.blogspot.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12600498.post-52153007997781894592010-10-26T11:26:26.675-04:002010-10-26T11:26:26.675-04:00Hi,
Mar Gavriel's mention of Dr. Eli Stern'...Hi,<br />Mar Gavriel's mention of Dr. Eli Stern's work sounds very interesting; is it available anywhere online?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12600498.post-6753196990553181562010-10-26T10:06:05.789-04:002010-10-26T10:06:05.789-04:00Thanks for that info. On the one hand, I wanted to...Thanks for that info. On the one hand, I wanted to be sure this was the first edition, so I looked it up in Benjacob and according to him it was the second and later. I checked Fuerst and according to him it was from 1808 as indicated on the title page, so I just went with him.<br /><br />That said, I was surprised that there is neither a censor's note or a haskama in this edition. I also thought it was odd that it *only* had the non-Jewish date. Like you said, something is fishy. But it makes sense that this is the first printing anyway, since the other one has the appended note of R Chaim in the beginning. Thanks for clearing it up.<br /><br />I think that changing the place of publication often had to with reasons other than prestige. For example, many Chasidic books had false places of publication and dates after their printing was outlawed.S.http://onthemainline.blogspot.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12600498.post-75683442912070487552010-10-26T07:51:53.024-04:002010-10-26T07:51:53.024-04:00A much bigger problem is that מעשה רב, as such, di...A much bigger problem is that מעשה רב, as such, didn't exist in 1808.<br /><br />It is true that it is based on a רשימה of the Gaon's minhagim from the 1790s, but that wasn't by Issachar Baer (who was a teenager at the time), but by Rav Saadia of Vilna, a student of the Gaon.<br /><br />Nobody thought of publishing the רשימה until 1817, when Issachar Baer collected this and other רשימות of the Gaon's minhagim, and got lukewarm haskamoth from R' Hayyim of Volozhin and R' Abraham Danziger (the author of חיי אדם). Why lukewarm? Because the list isn't so reliable -- Rav Saadia was not one of the most stellar student of the Gaon. (As explained by R' Dr. Elli Stern.)<br /><br />Anyway, for whatever reason, Issachar Baer did not end up publishing מעשה רב until 1832. This edition (Vilna-Horodna) is the first printing.<br /><br />I noticed the title page with "1808" on HebrewBooks a few months ago -- the one which you display here. The date "1808" seems to be an intentional attempt to mislead buyers. This is a common phenomenon in 18th (and maybe also 19th) century printing -- write a phony date or place of publication on the title page, to increase the prestige of the book.<br /><br />Something fishy is going on here.Mar Gavrielnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12600498.post-79174560358496616072010-10-25T18:03:29.344-04:002010-10-25T18:03:29.344-04:00Semicha doesn't really exist. I'm not goin...Semicha doesn't really exist. I'm not going to say it was invented by American congregations in the 1940s, but that's kind of my opinion about it.S.http://onthemainline.blogspot.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12600498.post-59364539502186975992010-10-25T18:01:23.266-04:002010-10-25T18:01:23.266-04:00An added wrinkle - the Gaon had no semicha so tech...An added wrinkle - the Gaon had no semicha so technically he wasn't a Rav.Garnel Ironhearthttp://garnelironheart.blogspot.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12600498.post-62692497712254601342010-10-25T13:50:16.764-04:002010-10-25T13:50:16.764-04:00No excuse from Polish there.No excuse from Polish there.Phillip Mindenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16801818752833289089noreply@blogger.com