tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12600498.post3737586949703390720..comments2024-01-21T02:58:08.208-05:00Comments on On the Main Line: An amusing foray into philologyMississippi Fred MacDowellhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02734864605700159687noreply@blogger.comBlogger15125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12600498.post-12496599516120720422013-01-16T21:11:24.392-05:002013-01-16T21:11:24.392-05:00The reason why chazal refer to rome as a boar is b...The reason why chazal refer to rome as a boar is because the symbol of the fretensis was a boar.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12600498.post-11417967188713909232013-01-16T19:31:14.954-05:002013-01-16T19:31:14.954-05:00Although the Yalkut is a late compilation, the ran...Although the Yalkut is a late compilation, the range of its source texts stretches back to the early CEs. I haven't looked to see what parallels are cited, but it's as likely as not that this is a rather old midrash, possibly contemporary with the events it reads into the verse.DDnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12600498.post-52945257785785814722013-01-16T13:11:05.370-05:002013-01-16T13:11:05.370-05:00I wonder if the homily is not that the passuk real...I wonder if the homily is not that the passuk really does refer to Romulus himself, and then in order to other stages of the roman polity, ending with the hurban, alluded to in v. 16. In that case, maybe we should consider that the word is ισοκρατεια or some permutation thereof, meaning "republic"?AGnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12600498.post-204203537203360432013-01-16T08:29:07.601-05:002013-01-16T08:29:07.601-05:00> Is there a reason you didn't go to check...> Is there a reason you didn't go to check Jastrow while researching these words? Might have saved some of the guesswork.<br /><br />Sure. I also didn't go to the Arukh Ha-shalem or other annotated editions of the Yalkut linked above - I didn't get up to that yet. This post was my initial thinking. Normally I dig a little deeper, but this time I decided not to and just throw it out there.Shttp://onthemainline.blogspot.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12600498.post-60280774637634608142013-01-16T03:16:24.983-05:002013-01-16T03:16:24.983-05:00I think the implication of the text is that the &q...I think the implication of the text is that the "boar" and "that which moveth in the field" are agents of Rome that are attacking the Jews; in that context "stratelates" (field general, later a military governor) works much better than "secretarii" (secretary). But what was the author's source? According to Wikipedia <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stratelates" rel="nofollow">stratelates</a> had become a merely honorary rank by the 6th century CE, and it would have been an unlikely choice for a late text.Joe in Australianoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12600498.post-39073128661461387342013-01-16T01:37:17.764-05:002013-01-16T01:37:17.764-05:00Jastrow derives איסקריטורי from Greek σηκρηταροι, ...Jastrow derives איסקריטורי from Greek σηκρηταροι, sekretaroi, Latin secretarii, for "a sovereign's private secretaries". Meanwhile he derives אסטרטילוטין from Greek στρατηλατης, stratelates, "military governor", which seems reasonable as well. Is there a reason you didn't go to check Jastrow while researching these words? Might have saved some of the guesswork.<br /><br />And the etymology of secretary does indeed suggest that its earliest meaning was "one entrusted with secrets; a trusted confidant".Noam Siennanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12600498.post-40553813728594191122013-01-15T12:12:23.049-05:002013-01-15T12:12:23.049-05:00arent איסטרטילוטין some form of roman officers איכ...arent איסטרטילוטין some form of roman officers איכה רבה בובר http://www.hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=33182&st=&pgnum=217Mendelnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12600498.post-41818861344787771872013-01-15T12:09:51.067-05:002013-01-15T12:09:51.067-05:00I've seen iskratorin, I'm pretty sure; thi...I've seen iskratorin, I'm pretty sure; think it refers to some kind of torturers, but I can't remember the Latin word it's supposed to be. (And I even know Latin!) And maybe I'm confusing it with a different word.Mar Gavrielnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12600498.post-63465663184397760072013-01-15T12:09:40.145-05:002013-01-15T12:09:40.145-05:00What happened to my comment?!What happened to my comment?!Mar Gavrielnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12600498.post-77349124093915964842013-01-15T11:54:50.175-05:002013-01-15T11:54:50.175-05:00Thanks all. Seems I was a little premature. ;-)Thanks all. Seems I was a little premature. ;-)S.http://onthemainline.blogspot.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12600498.post-23005674387052445362013-01-15T11:52:37.491-05:002013-01-15T11:52:37.491-05:00http://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=48229&...http://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=48229&hilite=8a7072a0-49ab-4b12-b36e-6933affeb4a8&st=%d7%90%d7%99%d7%a1%d7%a7%d7%a8%d7%90%d7%98%d7%95%d7%a8%d7%99%d7%9fAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12600498.post-63252379108026217742013-01-15T11:46:28.431-05:002013-01-15T11:46:28.431-05:00The word appears a few times in our sources. See K...The word appears a few times in our sources. See Ketubot 35b.<br />I would propose that the word comes from Secretarium. It serves to define secretary in the general sense. But the original meaning was related to the word secret. So perhaps it means spies and the like.<br />Ziz is usually defines as a bird. It can refer both to written edicts that fly quickly across the empire or perhaps to spies. As in ועוף השמים יוליך את הקול.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12600498.post-83940264941170804772013-01-15T11:44:41.687-05:002013-01-15T11:44:41.687-05:00The Yalkut editor seems to have gotten it right. S...The Yalkut editor seems to have gotten it right. See Aruch אסקרטורי, who says: סקרטרי בלשון רומי סופרי סוד. "E-secretaries," if you will!kurkevannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12600498.post-67997625931053192122013-01-15T11:42:22.292-05:002013-01-15T11:42:22.292-05:00http://www.hebrewbooks.org/pagefeed/hebrewbooks_or...http://www.hebrewbooks.org/pagefeed/hebrewbooks_org_20771_439.pdf<br />see footnote 76<br /><br />מדרש תהלים (בובר) מזמור פ <br /><br /> יכרסמנה חזיר מיער. זה השר צבא. וזיז שדי ירענה. זה איסטרטיקולין. Mumarhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14311234945844534637noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12600498.post-78883295868317627362013-01-15T11:37:33.520-05:002013-01-15T11:37:33.520-05:00Seems reasonable. "Scrittore" is the Ita...Seems reasonable. "Scrittore" is the Italian word for author / writer. It could be an unrelated Greek word, though...Jordannoreply@blogger.com