tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12600498.post3585096502579515922..comments2024-01-21T02:58:08.208-05:00Comments on On the Main Line: Marc Shapiro on the question of obligation of belief in the authorship of the Zohar.Mississippi Fred MacDowellhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02734864605700159687noreply@blogger.comBlogger39125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12600498.post-43743099110361253622012-10-16T21:27:58.640-04:002012-10-16T21:27:58.640-04:00How bout Magen V'Tzinah by R. Y. I. Chaver? ht...How bout Magen V'Tzinah by R. Y. I. Chaver? http://hebrewbooks.org/20122Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12600498.post-49684416014264202422012-01-04T11:07:30.764-05:002012-01-04T11:07:30.764-05:00Emunas Chachomim, Torah shebeal peh, lo sasur, etc...Emunas Chachomim, Torah shebeal peh, lo sasur, etc. is my guess. It would not surprise me if someone might even adapt a statement allegedly said by R. Yisrael Salanter about covering the head, A man who does not cover his head is not necessarily a heretic, but heretics don't cover their head.S.http://onthemainline.blogspot.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12600498.post-31678889539840997472012-01-04T10:58:43.594-05:002012-01-04T10:58:43.594-05:00What is the source for a requirement to believe th...What is the source for a requirement to believe that RSBY wrote the Zohar? All I see is an argument for how such a requirement does not exist. Where would the requirement come from (for those who say it exists)?Garynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12600498.post-77618556404880902302012-01-03T13:18:17.711-05:002012-01-03T13:18:17.711-05:00If style can be used to prove or disprove authorsh...If style can be used to prove or disprove authorship of a given work, one might conclude, after reading this article, that the flowery rabbinic prose, honorific titles, and mocking tone (when discussing the reform publication) could not have been produced by the academic pen of Marc Shapiro.MBAnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12600498.post-49788082766118529992011-12-30T08:32:20.869-05:002011-12-30T08:32:20.869-05:00Guest2, I know, I was just kidding. It seems that ...Guest2, I know, I was just kidding. It seems that some people would rather look at titles than at essence.Y. https://www.blogger.com/profile/00852218508652846269noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12600498.post-27103226800338499552011-12-30T08:30:35.391-05:002011-12-30T08:30:35.391-05:00anon @1:50 am, interesting, Shadal writes very sim...anon @1:50 am, interesting, Shadal writes very similarly to this, that kaballah is the same/comes from philosophy.Y. https://www.blogger.com/profile/00852218508652846269noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12600498.post-46505508347928052782011-12-30T06:33:10.306-05:002011-12-30T06:33:10.306-05:00Yeedle -
I live in Yerushalayim and i know how R&...Yeedle -<br /><br />I live in Yerushalayim and i know how R' Z N Goldberg's tests work...<br /><br />Depends what type of test he took and if he has shimush with reshus to pasken...Smicha doesn't mean you can pasken. Especially that type of smicha (if you knew how the tests works you'd understand ;)<br /><br />(Answer questions b'csav, open book, as long as you want to do it, at home, with a chevrusa, etc..You then bring him the test he takes out a pre-made paper and fills in your name and on what material you answered on - i.e. shabbos, issur v'heter, niddah, etc...I don't know why he does this but this is what he does. Someone told me it's so people that want to work in Chinuch in America will at least have some sort of "smicha".Guest2noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12600498.post-19592606263731020022011-12-30T01:50:36.789-05:002011-12-30T01:50:36.789-05:00DF, my point was that when you quote a line like t...DF, my point was that when you quote a line like that out of context, it sounds more radical than when you see it in context.<br /><br /> Another example of that is your one-liner "doesnt he also say there that kabbalah is another word for philosophy?" here is the context vol. 3 chapter 4 (emphases added)<br />לפי מה שנתבאר ידוע כי דרכי הקבלה הן בעצמן דרכי הפילוסופים <b>האמתיים המאמינים </b>וכמו שכל מה שחקרו והוציאו הפילוסופים מעיוניהם המופתיים שהשם יתעלה נמצא ושהוא אחד ושאינו גוף ולא כח בגוף שהוא תכלית פילוסופיא אלהית קבלו ישראל במתן תורה מפי הגבורה וכן כל מה שדקדקו בהרחקת התוארים ושאר דברים הנתלים בזה עד<b> שמקצתן עמדו על האמת </b>לתארו בפעולות או בדרך שוללי כן קבלו חכמי ישראל ענינים האלו בקבלה בענין הספירות <b>ונתוספו בעלי הקבלה מבעלי החקירה בזה שהם קבלו האמת כאשר הוא ויודעים דברים שלא עמדו עליו הפילוסופים בחקירתם </b>ויודעים דרכי הכחות והתפשטותן בעולם ואיך נקשרו בשמות ובמלות ובאותיות עד שידעו על ידי זה לפעול בהן ברצונן והן דרכי השמות ופעולותם שהם ביד ישראל<b> מקובלים ממשה רבינו עליו השלום </b>וכן קבלו ענין המרכבות והיכלות העליונים ושם המשרתים לעבוד את קונם אשר ממנו נאצל הכל טוב ורע וקבלו שמות המשרתים אשר הם מורים על כחן ופעולותם ועל ידי זה היה כח בידן להשתמש בשמות ובכתרים ההם <b>כפי אשר קבלו מן הנבואה אשר היא למעלה מן החקירה האנושית </b>וכ"ז מבואר למודה על האמת...הכלל כאשר נתבאר כי הספירות הם תוארי הפעולות ואין מחלוקת בזה בין חכמי הקבלה ובין חכמי הפילוסופים רק בקריאת השמות בלבד כי אלו קראום ספירות ושמות ואלו קראום תוארים ופעולות <b>וכן כתב הרב רבי משה בוטריל בפירוש ספר יצירה</b> כי חכמת הקבלה היא חכמת הפילוסופיא רק שבשני לשונות ידברוAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12600498.post-84404479763669662252011-12-30T01:44:15.718-05:002011-12-30T01:44:15.718-05:00Might I add R' Yichyah Kapach's book on th...Might I add R' Yichyah Kapach's book on the authenticity of the Zohar? This one is in English: http://www.angelfire.com/ak2/book55/Philnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12600498.post-74843237398138507232011-12-29T22:54:48.408-05:002011-12-29T22:54:48.408-05:00Guest2, By the way, Dr. Marc Shapiro has semikah f...Guest2, By the way, Dr. Marc Shapiro has semikah from R. Zalman Nehemiah Goldberg. So maybe that's an academic you would allow to decide practical halakhah.Y. https://www.blogger.com/profile/00852218508652846269noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12600498.post-65339638572166987422011-12-29T22:52:35.334-05:002011-12-29T22:52:35.334-05:00My family minhag is not to put on tefillin. My per...My family minhag is not to put on tefillin. My personal minhag is to put on at home. Reason being, well, you basically said it.Y. https://www.blogger.com/profile/00852218508652846269noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12600498.post-35880368063154374472011-12-29T17:26:06.728-05:002011-12-29T17:26:06.728-05:00What's your minhag? There are some that do put...What's your minhag? There are some that do put on Tefillin on Chol HaMoed.<br /><br />(B'frat if you don't believe in Kabballah mistama your minhag is like those that do put on on Chol HaMoed)<br /><br />I wouldn't live it up to the academics for any inyun to start deciding practical halacha for the people based on their cheshbonos and research -- as good as it might be..Guest2noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12600498.post-14611685234383509842011-12-29T15:01:28.025-05:002011-12-29T15:01:28.025-05:00Guest2 re. the M"A in Hilkhos Purim: So even ...Guest2 re. the M"A in Hilkhos Purim: So even if I totally disbelieve in kaballah I'm still patur from putting on tefillin on Chol Ha'Moed? Hey, who was it who spoke about a karkafta d'lo manach tefillin? :-)Y. https://www.blogger.com/profile/00852218508652846269noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12600498.post-55753844443982915232011-12-29T14:01:47.036-05:002011-12-29T14:01:47.036-05:00The discussion on who wrote the Zohar, what to bel...The discussion on who wrote the Zohar, what to believe and what not to is PURELY academic...True mainly because no one in the "charedi" world will say otherwise...But another point is because in the realm of lets say psak or limud of kabballah I don't think it'll anyway matter at the end of the day if the Rashbi wrote the Zohar or not (especially where we are holding in terms of history.) Nothing will change. <br /><br />The M"A says in Hilchos Purim that we are not m'vatel any minhag even if there is some issur involved in it. So any minhag or halacha based on the Zohar there wouldn't be any room to get rid of.<br /><br />Marc Shapiro is a moreh-dika Talmud Chocham I've listened to his shiurim, read his posts on Seforim blog, etc. I look forward to reading this article as well. However to bring this Darchei Moshe is cute -- big talmidei chochamim already know -- in fact a Rebbe of mine once pointed it out to myself and few other talmidim around 4 years ago. The way these things are found also interests me. Was the person learning Yoreh Deah and found it agav, did they look for it, did someone tell them. No difference really, just curious to know.Guest2noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12600498.post-80157860009934385552011-12-29T12:35:44.827-05:002011-12-29T12:35:44.827-05:00Guest and Guest 2 -
Marc Shapiro discusses the g...Guest and Guest 2 - <br /><br />Marc Shapiro discusses the gradations between not beleiving kaballah at all, beleiving in kaballah but not beleiving that Rashbi write the Zohar, and beleiving that Rashbi wrote only part of the Zohar.<br /><br />Good citations to the Toiras Haolah. doesnt he also say there that kabbalh is another word for philosophy? agav, <br /><br />agav, guest2, this has nothing to with Marc Shaprio's status as an academic rather than a professional rabbi. Everyone gets shlugged up from other sources, zoo hi darka shel toirah.DFhttp://www.yahoo.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12600498.post-40374092447003325332011-12-29T11:33:49.115-05:002011-12-29T11:33:49.115-05:00Guest2, Shapiro's discussion is whether it'...Guest2, Shapiro's discussion is whether it's permitted to believe that the Zohar was not written by Rashbi, not on the veracity of Kaballah. It's more then a "nice academic chop". In the town square test, saying nowadays that Rashbi didn't author the Zohar would fail.Y. https://www.blogger.com/profile/00852218508652846269noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12600498.post-87410299520677425742011-12-29T09:26:59.696-05:002011-12-29T09:26:59.696-05:00יורה דעהיורה דעהJrnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12600498.post-25050490318961173482011-12-29T08:39:23.137-05:002011-12-29T08:39:23.137-05:00In which chelek of SA is this Darchei Moshe in (th...In which chelek of SA is this Darchei Moshe in (the siman was already posted)Yehoshuahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11052518636963321956noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12600498.post-39646381075538339172011-12-29T08:37:42.903-05:002011-12-29T08:37:42.903-05:00Anonymous --
Booya!!!
For an academic the Darchei...Anonymous --<br />Booya!!!<br /><br />For an academic the Darchei Moshe is a nice "chop"...But you'll always find someone to fire back...Guest2noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12600498.post-60834134492893913542011-12-29T00:13:44.275-05:002011-12-29T00:13:44.275-05:00Concerning the Darkei Moshe, though the word שמעתי...Concerning the Darkei Moshe, though the word שמעתי sounds "less committal than you'd think", nevertheless the Darkei Moshe seems to be so sure of rashbi's authorship of the zohar that he will rule leniently because of it..<br />Even if he was in doubt as to the specific author of the zohar, it's clear he didn't doubt it's divine source and veracity, see his toras haolah vol.2 ch. 1<br />דבר זה לקטתי מדברי הזוהר והם דברים הנתנים בסיני<br />vol. 3 ch. 4<br />ובהיות כי המקובלים קבלו עניני השמות ופירושיהן איש מפי איש עד משה רבינו עליו השלום<br />ch.32<br />הם דברי המקובלים באומה הישראלית אשר<br />עמדו על זה בקבלה איש מפי איש מפי משה רבינו עליו השלוםAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12600498.post-27856400409255855502011-12-28T23:26:06.715-05:002011-12-28T23:26:06.715-05:00"These acronyms seem to be assigned on the ba..."These acronyms seem to be assigned on the basis of phonetic preference. It seems kind of arbitrary."<br /><br />Not necessarily. Two factors should be considered:<br /><br />1. Does the acronym correspond with an existing Hebrew word?<br /><br />2. Was the acronym chosen by the author himself?Shimon Snoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12600498.post-43130113125894140462011-12-28T22:59:46.516-05:002011-12-28T22:59:46.516-05:00Concerning the Darkei Moshe, though the word שמעתי...Concerning the Darkei Moshe, though the word שמעתי sounds "less committal than you'd think", nevertheless the Darkei Moshe over there is using rashbi's authorship of the zohar to be lenient. <br />Even if he was in doubt as to the specific author of the zohar, it's clear he didn't doubt it's divine source and veracity, see his toras haolah vol.2 ch. 1<br />דבר זה לקטתי מדברי הזוהר והם דברים הנתנים בסיני <br />vol. 3 ch. 4<br />ובהיות כי המקובלים קבלו עניני השמות ופירושיהן איש מפי איש עד משה רבינו עליו השלום<br />ch.32<br />הם דברי המקובלים באומה הישראלית אשר <br />עמדו על זה בקבלה איש מפי איש מפי משה רבינו עליו השלוםAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12600498.post-60518809721267752192011-12-28T22:14:23.349-05:002011-12-28T22:14:23.349-05:00Rav tzair in toldos haposkim vol 3 pg 68 mentions ...Rav tzair in toldos haposkim vol 3 pg 68 mentions this Darcei Moshe. See there for further analysis of the rema's approach to Kabbala in general and to incorporating it into Halacha.Jrnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12600498.post-87894053324441461332011-12-28T21:13:07.685-05:002011-12-28T21:13:07.685-05:00These acronyms seem to be assigned on the basis of...These acronyms seem to be assigned on the basis of phonetic preference. It seems kind of arbitrary.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12600498.post-88398148726602565432011-12-28T21:09:04.726-05:002011-12-28T21:09:04.726-05:00Shimon S,I didn't realize your question was ab...Shimon S,I didn't realize your question was about the 2 X Rapaport.<br /><br />Would I say Rabbi Shadal? Hmmm... probably not. Like Chida. or Neziv. Or Malbim. So why do I say Ramchal, Radal? I don't know.Y. https://www.blogger.com/profile/00852218508652846269noreply@blogger.com